Season 1: Finale: Catherine X. Pan-Giordano

Dorsey & Whitney Partner, Corporate Group Head in NY office, Chair of the U.S.-China Practice, Member of the Management Committee

Asian, female, multilingual and partner, Catherine X. Pan-Giordano, Esq. is the epitome of success that Ingrid from the hit Netflix series Partner Track aspires to achieve.

She’s featured in the New York Times Magazine as one of Top Women Attorneys in New York, hailed as a Rising Star. She was honored as one of the Top Women in Dealmaking by The Deal in 2023; recognized as a Foreign Expert (China) by Chambers Global for four consecutive years and in Lawyers of Color’s Power List.

Growing up in China, Catherine loved ancient Chinese detective stories and crime fiction. She has studied law in China, Sweden and the U.S. She has been the top of her class throughout her school years, except at law school in the U.S., where she admittedly learned the most. When she started her career in the U.S. as a first-year associate, she made an unusual request with the firm that hired her. What was her ask? How did she make partner in BigLaw and earn one of the seven seats at the firm’s Management Committee? What was the most important factor contributing to her success?

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Why did you study law? What did you expect to learn from law school in the U.S.? What did you actually learn?

I have been interested in law from an early age. I love reading ancient Chinese detective stories and crime fiction. The graphic forensic details are not for the faint of heart. I am drawn to the works of Chinese legalism philosophers throughout Chinese history, such as Shang Yang, the philosopher, legalist scholar from almost 2,000 years ago. His policies laid foundation for the administrative, political and economic structure to unify the country into a centralized state. These legal scholars in China aspired to improve the country through legal reform, though the result is not always heartening. Law makes incremental changes through providing behavioral guidance in society. Yet the progressive change is not the sole approach to improve society. It depends on the stages of the change. Progressive quantitative change leads to revolutionary qualitative one. Both can be arguably effective at the appropriate time.  

Before I arrived at Harvard, I believe in the Chinese saying: 读万卷书，行万里路 (Du Wan Juan Shu. Xing Wan Li Lu.) The literal translation is to read ten thousand books and walk ten thousand miles. It means that knowledge not only comes from books, also from experience in the real world. To learn from lived experience is equally important if not more than book learning. I have the fortunate to study with many renowned scholars in law school. I have been top of my class throughout my school years, except at Harvard. Many of my classmates are already achieved attorneys from around the world. That is exactly why I learned the most at Harvard. 

You have studied and practiced law in China, Sweden and the United States. What is your impression of the legal profession in the two countries?

I have studied law in China, the United States, Sweden and Austria and practiced law in China and the U.S. The obvious differences of course is that China and Sweden are civil law countries, and the United States is a common law country. I studied international law and comparative corporate law in Europe. My professors are not only from Sweden but from other E.U. countries. Some are from the United States. I received the enlightened legal education in Sweden. I learned how to think independently, critically and creatively as a lawyer. Of course, the education I received at Harvard focused on academic freedom, critical and independent thinking. The rules are ever-changing, it doesn’t matter what the rules are at the time we enrolled in a certain class. What matters is the ability and motivation to learn for self-growth and improvement. It is not to say that my legal education in China is not important. My professor are extremely dedicated. They exemplify the legal profession’s good conscience.

You are on the management committee in a global law firm’s New York office, leading its U.S.-China transactional practice. It is a remarkable achievement. Could you describe your work on the management committee? What is the most important factor contributing to your success?

The management committee work involves the firm’s executive decisions. It is very different from practicing law. When practicing law, you know you make the right decision if the you help your client successfully acquire a business or defend an federal inquiry, etc. There is a sense of closure in achieving the end result. The work on the management committee usually have a lasting impact on the firm and the employees yet you are not sure whether the decision is correct or not, only time can tell. For example, whether the firm should hire or let go certain people and why.

As for success, I believe different factors determine one’s success at different stages. As a new associate, one needs to work hard and pay one’s dues. You have to learn fast. Do not cut corners. I remember when I just graduated from law school and started working as a first-year associate, the partner assigned lots of Chinese clients to me because I’d practiced law in China. I refused because it would be too easy for me as a lawyer. I would not have opportunities to learn and grow. I would be teaching the firm instead of learning from them. I requested to be treated as other American first-year associates fresh out of law school. It was through the arduous training in the early years, I learned and grew the most as a lawyer.

What role do you think international lawyers like yourself can play in the current U.S.-China Relations? Could you share with us any examples of the law practitioners playing a positive role to ease the tension in U.S.-China Relations?

The late Justice Scalia said: “the main business of a lawyer is to take the romance, the mystery, the irony, the ambiguity out of everything he touches.” Lawyers play critical role in interpreting what the rule means. Some Chinese conglomerates I represent have received investigation inquiries or listed on the sanction list by the federal government. One issue is to interpret what it means to a conglomerate if one of its entities appears on the sanction list; whether it affects other subsidiaries or affiliates in the conglomerate. We aim at making the narrow legal interpretation that other affiliates do not have substantial connection with the listed entity. It can make a significant difference to the client.

In terms of having a positive impact on U.S.-China Relations, I am proud to have helped U.S. schools establish operation in China, providing early and secondary American-style education to Chinese children. China has notoriously stringent requirement on foreign investment in education. Approval is rarely granted to international schools unless they only educate children of foreign expats. I have provided creative legal solutions to assist clients in achieving their goals through transactional and structural adjustment. It ensures that eligible and interested families in China can access high-standard international education without having to travel aboard at a young age.

You represent many Chinese companies doing business in the U.S. Would you share with us examples of any disputes caused by the two different business cultures?

The recruiting and human resources management philosophy in U.S. and China differs significantly. It is not uncommon to the following on a job post from a Chinese company: Candidate shall be male and under 40-years-old. The position requires frequent travel. Candidates shall provide medical records to prove that he does not have any chronicle diseases. The same advertisement would violate various federal, state and local laws and regulations in the U.S.

Another example is in contract disputes, Chinese companies are often wary of document production in discovery. In commercial litigation, the discovery process cuts both ways. Both the plaintiff and the defendants serve each other document production requests, unless the information is subject to exemption, thus can be redacted. Inevitably the massive amount of documents exchanged during discovery could hurt the plaintiff’s case. It is the counsel’s responsibility to foresee pitfalls in the proceeding and prepare the client about the stringent and adversary process before the client initiates the lawsuit. Otherwise if the plaintiff refuses to provide documents during discovery, it could be detrimental to the client’s case. Not to mention that the counsel could get sanctioned by the court.

What is the most meaningful part of your work in the law?

Law is not only a job for me. It is my life’s work. I enjoy making a difference to my clients, to deliver solutions what other firms cannot deliver for them. I enjoy training the next generation of lawyers at the firm through interesting projects. As for the firm, of course the meaning of my work derives from bringing financial reward to the firm. I truly admire and respect the resilience and entrepreneurship my clients demonstrate. My risk management and compliance practice is meaningful in the context of the current climate of U.S.-China Relations. More medium and small companies from China realize managing expenditures is just as important as opening up new sources of revenue.

Any advice for the next generation of lawyers?

The new generation has access to the internet from an early age. They have so much more than we did. I hope they do not waste time or opportunities. Use their time wisely.