Season 1: Episode 8: Haohan Wang

UK-Trained Lawyer from China and Legal Extern at Paul Hastings

How did he land an externship at BigLaw? Haohan applied to 25 externship positions and received 15 interview invites and 3 offers.

Haohan received his first law degree in the UK. He studied and worked in Beijing, London and Brussels. What are the top networking tips that landed him an externship position at BigLaw? How did he find the inside information about what specific skill sets certain firms are looking for? How did he navigate the differences in business cultures, while working for White & Case representing a state-owned enterprise in China? What does it mean to “think like a lawyer” while ordering dinner?

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Where did you grow up?

I grew up in Beijing, the capital city of China. I received my primary and secondary school education in China.

Why did you choose to study law?

I grew up in a family where my aunt was a judge. I grew up being curious about discipline and rules. From a very young age, I was fascinated by traffic lights. The idea of basic rules distilled in my heart. In high school, I started to get into modern United Nations mock trials, I realized that I could be a lawyer, I want to be someone who interpret the rules and help other people to understand the rules. I think everybody should be treated equally.

You received your first law degree in the UK and you studied in Europe? Could you describe your educational background?

I attended primary and secondary schools was in Beijing, China. My nanny speaks English fluently. English has been my language growing up as well. In high school, I did an exchange program was Brussels, where I learned how EU European Commission works. I did summer program at Yale University called the Young Global Scholars. I learned about American politics, economics and law, where I first developed the idea of American constitutional law works. I received my first law degree from King's College London, I own everything to that college, where I built a solid foundation in common law.

How did you get your externship at Paul Hastings?

I did an externship with Paul Hastings litigation department in Washington DC. My supervisor is my professor who taught me international arbitration and commercial litigation during the fall semester. I started applying for externship at the end of October in the fall semester. Students started discussing externship and professor profiles. I was particularly interested in working with this professor who’s also a partner at the firm, due to his excellent teaching methods and our compatible personalities. I prioritized the Paul Hastings externship and submitted my application, cover letter, resume, and a writing sample on international trade and litigation. It took a considerable some time for them to process and conduct interviews.

I want to clarify for the record that I did not secure the externship solely because I attended the professor’s class. This principle applies universally to all externships—being a professor's student is not a prerequisite for becoming their extern. From my perspective, what mattered most was witnessing his teaching style and his approach to legal concepts. I gained insight into his legal reasoning and policy perspectives. I was particularly drawn to his method of working with clients and resolving legal matters, as there were valuable lessons I could learn from him. Although I also applied to externships under other professors who are partners in their respective fields (whose names I won't mention), my connection with the partner at Paul Hastings felt the strongest. Trusting my instincts played a crucial role in my decision-making process. If you feel a genuine connection with a professor and have confidence in your relationship, chances are they feel the same way. Therefore, I followed my instincts and made securing the externship position with him my top priority. I’m glad it worked out at the end.

How many applications did you send out? How many interview invites did you receive? How many offers did you receive eventually for the externship?

In terms of the ratio, I sent out 25 applications and received 3 offers in the end. Throughout the process, I believe I received interview invites from about 15 firms and organizations. Out of the interviews I attended, three resulted in offers, while the remaining either declined me before extending an offer or I declined them. It is a lengthy process, since I also applied for federal government agencies. It's worth noting that the timeline for externships can vary significantly, with some organizations and institutions starting their selection process even before the spring semester begins. In my case, I completed my application and secured an offer relatively early in the fall, possibly before the fall semester concluded. I recommend students who are interested in an externship to start the process early.

From your own assessment, what qualities employers are looking for from their externs?

In externships, what matters most is your personal connection with the supervisor and whether you are a suitable fit for their working style. In my interviews for externships, I noticed a recurring theme where they emphasized the importance of finding someone pleasant to work with throughout the spring semester. They sought individuals who are eager to learn, willing to take on assigned work, and have a personable nature.

Establishing a positive personal relationship is crucial in the context of an externship. Therefore, when crafting your resume and during the interview, it is essential to highlight your experiences working with reputable organizations and emphasize that you are a pleasant person to work with. Emphasize your enthusiasm for learning and growth. It is not necessary to be perfect in all aspects, whether it's legal skills, language proficiency, or research abilities. The externship is an opportunity for learning, and any deficiencies can be overcome through dedicated work and a willingness to improve. This, in my opinion, aligns with the spirit of an externship program. In conclusion, my takeaway is to be personable and create a positive impression as someone enjoyable to work with. Find a supervisor who appreciates your qualities.

When it comes to hiring lawyer with an international background, certain firms are likely to be looking for lawyers with certain credentials, i.e. specific language skills or work experience, how do you find out about the insider information about what firms are looking for?

That’s why networking is so important. Networking plays a crucial role in the job application process, and it's not something that can be accomplished within a short period of time. It's an ongoing effort that starts from the very first day of your LLM program. Naturally, you begin to build connections, get to know people, and establish contacts with individuals you meet at events. Initiating conversations and sending follow-up emails help foster relationships. Don't hesitate to be honest and ask them about job opportunities, expressing your background and inquiring if it aligns with their firm's needs. People in the United States are typically straightforward and friendly, willing to provide relevant information if they believe you could be a good fit. While LinkedIn is a useful tool, I've found that emails and personal interactions, whether face-to-face or over the phone, are more constructive. Many people don't respond to messages, so having direct conversations can yield better results.

How did you network to get connected to your current employer?

I have four tips for networking for international law students.

Firstly, get to know your professors: Professors are valuable resources and are often willing to go the extra mile to assist you. Don't hesitate to ask them about opportunities within their firms or the possibility of an externship. They can provide valuable insights and information.

Secondly, joining societies and attending events: I met so many practitioners while organizing events at Georgetown International Arbitration Society. Following these events, I send catch-up emails, expressing gratitude and suggesting the possibility of a phone conversation or informational interview. Taking advantage of similar opportunities and societies at your law school.

Thirdly, utilizing personal contacts: For some law students, reaching out to previous employers or colleagues can be fruitful. If you are in a new location, such as DC, reconnecting with old contacts and asking if they know anyone at a specific firm or office can open doors for conversations. Having a shared history and references can strengthen your networking efforts.

Lastly, general LinkedIn and other events: Keep an eye out for events posted on LinkedIn or in emails from the Office of Career Services. These events could be organized by various universities and law firms. Attending these events allows you to make initial connections, and in-person introductions tend to be more effective than cold emails alone. Even if they can put a face to your name, there's a higher chance of receiving a response and potentially securing an informational interview. These networking strategies have helped me gain valuable insights and opportunities.

Do you have any advice for international law students who are going through the job search process?

As I go through this process myself, the word that comes to mind is "persistent." It's crucial to be persistent because there are numerous obstacles along the way. Often, your email may not reach the partner directly, and instead, it may be assessed by HR. Therefore, you must persevere because sometimes your email may go unread or a coffee chat might need to be rescheduled. It's a challenging process, especially in the current unfavorable market conditions, but persistence is key.

Another important quality is being resourceful. I learned this from a friend, and I'm implementing it now. Be resourceful. Being very clever. Don't be shy. If you see some resources you can use, go ask for it. If it see something that is critical for your development, but you are too shy, or you think there’s no connection at all, go ask for it. Send an email or do something about it. Ask somebody to introduce you or just apply through their website. That's the mindset I'm adopting, and it has been a valuable lesson for me.

You have been working in China as a lawyer? What kind of work did you do in China?

During Covid, I was trying to get a pupilage in London as a barrister. However, as COVID hit, lots of chambers has frozen their process. So I went back to China, I've been working compliance, regulatory, export control, and white collar crime at White & Case for a year. I want to build my background in commerce, international commercial litigation or commercial arbitration. I moved to Herbert Smith, a British firm in Beijing. It is one of the only few foreign law firms in Beijing that does commercial arbitration.

What is the most interesting part of your work as a lawyer in China?

The most interesting part is to observe how Chinese state-owned enterprises engage with lawyers and how they understand foreign market and foreign rules. A lot of legal disputes arise, because business are contacted differently in China than in the U.S. or in UK. As a lawyer, you have to convey that to your client. Let's say FCPA, there's a reason why FCPA are enforced the way it is. It is might be contrary to what we understand might be contrary to how Chinese business culture.

Sometimes the Chinese state owned entities will have a list of requirements they really want to argue, you have to think what the tribunals are looking for, and how it harmonized with the Chinese companies understanding of a dispute.

The U.S. has long arm jurisdiction, where, like anything relating to America and American company, including bribing officials, or sending gifts to officials in in anywhere in the world could be prosecuted or could be enforced under FCPA.

Chinese companies they do business the way that the Chinese do business. They invite the key personnel for a fancy dinner for a drink. They give business partners some gifts. From the Chinese perspective, these are etiquette. From the FCPA’s point of view, anything exceeds a certain number of monetary value could be prosecuted as bribery. We need to tell the Chinese client: Listen, if you want to build a compliance system, this is how you avoid it by building a compliance system, while maintaining your etiquette.

It takes some convincing before the client accepts the position. The most important thing is to get them to see from the perspective of their competitors.

Can you give us a few examples of how cultural difference manifest in your work in the multilingual legal context?

I worked on international law firms in China. The partners all speak perfect English. Our working language is English. And the clients could be tricky. Sometimes they speak some English, sometimes they don't speak English at all, because they're state owned entities. And they use a system of lingo that is very local to Beijing. I spent a lot of time thinking about how to convey what they mean to our London and New York offices.

Translation can be tricky. If you translate it as literal as what they mean, it might cause some confusion, because there was no cultural context. If you translate too much, that you become liable for any misunderstanding arising from that over-translation.

One time, we have an arbitration before International Chamber of Commerce (ICC), we have our Paris office waiting on the line, we're trying to translate a document from the general counsel from our clients in Chinese, they don't write in English. The client wrote something that is quite literally in Chinese sense means urging you to act, as if they are getting impatient. We interpret it as our client is eager to resolve this, there might be a settlement happening. How do we kind of translate that? In Chinese sense, I'd understand it as urging, but in English, as I'd interpreted as keen, given the cultural context. So in the end, we were right. The case was settled.

Why did you choose the United States to study law?

I chose the United Kingdom to study law first. My experience of working in China makes me realized that America is a market that cannot be ignored. It is a market that is different in volume than Europe or UK or both combined. It is a market has this unique practice and perspective on litigation or arbitration.

What is your impression of American legal profession?

American lawyers are commercially oriented, compared to UK lawyers. UK lawyers are quite technical. They care about the details, the legal reasoning. I'm not saying American lawyers (are not). They are very academically excellent. They care more about what we can achieve for the client. Even if this might not be the most legally viable way, that's the way that our clients wants. And that is the way that makes the most money for our client, and also make most profit for the firm. That is American lawyers. They care about law, but they also cares about profits.

Tell me about those American legal TV shows or movies that inform or inspire your impression of American legal profession?

I can go on days about it. This is going to be odd for international students, I grew up watching JAG. It’s a TV show about American Navy lawyers. There's a movie A Few Good Men starring Tom Cruise. “I want the truth. You can’t handle the truth.” The trial scene is very dramatic. I watched Boston Legal in high school. It is an interesting TV show that got some very quirky arguments. That's where maybe that's where I built my passion or interest in advocacy in trial oriented work. Obviously, Suits, but it's not an legal but a fashion show. I spend about my entire legal career until now to correct my impression from that show (about American legal profession). I'll recommend for UK students specifically, Silk is fantastic show about barristers and how they work in the criminal justice system in UK.

What is your impression of studying law in the U.S. compared to in the U.K.?

The American law professors are more encouraging and more uplifting than my English professors. My professors encourages me to explore different ideas, even if I say some stupid things. i.e. I don't know how that works, I don't know how that reasoning or decision kind of was formulated. They’d be like: “It's okay. And you're doing a great job, keep going.” When I was doing my legal degree in the UK, they are more matter-of-factly. If you don't know this, you have to go back and read it. There are new concepts such as punitive damage, class action, and use of jury in commercial cases are new.

Law school teaches students to “think like a lawyer.” What does that mean to you?

Lawyers think with a thesis. Even if there are hundreds of pages of material, you figure out what is the issue? You go straight into the heart. What is the issue? How is law saying about that specific issue? And how should the law be applied? What is your conclusion? Every time I have any questions, I think like that. If you ask me what to eat for dinner, I think like that. I think the issue is what to eat and what I want to eat. And there are no rules about that. There are rules about my health. So how do I apply that? The conclusion is let's go for a salad.

My legal training enables me to solve problems. I am a verbal thinker. So every time I think about something, I set a stage in my head, and I speak it out. I make an argument in my head, I do a presentation, an argument. All lawyers think differently. I've seen lawyers who talks nonstop. I’ve also seen lawyers who doesn't talk much, but they are really good at memories and write down ideas in their head.

As for thinking in the multilingual legal context, there's a study shows that we adopts different personalities in different languages. I may be more demanding and more dominant in Chinese and or of a gentleman in English because the cultural upbringing that was associated with the language,

While I was working in China, especially during document production stage, I become more of a detail oriented, figuring out what that word specifically means. However, in English, I become a more argumentative thinker. I don’t recommend to have a parallel system in terms of multilingual people. You speak one language, think in that language. And that you have you have you don't translate it in your head.

Are there any interesting stories that you have encountered since you arrived in the United States due to linguistic, cultural, social differences?

I received my first law degree in the U.K. I may have a bit of British accent, when I just got here. I'm getting used to the American accent quickly. I would ask for the “bathroom” (pronounce: “bah-th-room”). People would be like: “You are not from here.”

Do you switch between British English and American English back and forth?

I'm having trouble recently. When I just flew back from London two days ago, I was speaking with mates in a pub in British English. As soon as I arrived in the U.S. everybody is speaking American English, my brain just couldn't help itself. I don’t really turn on British accent when I want to. I think that lacks a certain sense of authenticity, because I'm not in that environment.

What would you like to get out of your legal education here in the United States?

First, I want to understand how American lawyer works and how American legal market works. A lot of British lawyers work on self-employed basis. Here large firms have very established structure and corporate culture. Second, I want to know how American legal drafting is different from British legal drafting. Third, I want to have I want to embrace the globalism and multiculturalism in Washington, DC to learn perspectives from different people. I’ve made friends from Malaysia, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, South Africa, and Senegal. I want to know what other people in other places in the world think to better understand each other. Maybe in the future, there might be a case coming up or might be a client coming up with that connection.

If you could imagine an ideal professional life, what would that life look like for you?

I always have this dream, where I have my own chamber, or my own firm. So it's a personal initiative. I want to a firm that bridges the gap between China or wherever, the UK legal market and/or the American legal market. I want to bridge the gap not only from a culture perspective, from a business perspective, to facilitate and streamline how a case is being resolved in the dispute resolution process.

Who's your inspiration in the law?

Lord Denning, A.V. Dicey, H.L.A. Hart, Baroness Brenda Hale, they're all inspirational figures in my legal study while I was doing undergraduate degree. Their liberal approach on the law and their approach on how you should resolve a legal issue is inspiring, not just by looking at the rules, but looking at the reasonableness behind a rule. In a complex legal question and legal doctrine, I learn to look at the reality of life, based on fairness and justice.

My professors has been my inspiration. Many are experts in their field such as international arbitration. They're real people. So I can talk to them. I can constantly learn from them.

What are the top three physical things you would recommend anybody who are considering coming to the United States to study law to bring from home?

Bring your computer, including your past papers, what I wrote in your undergrad, your research. Sometimes I still look back at my old essays and my old research papers. You don't start fresh. You start with foundations. Those are your foundations.

Secondly, bring a suit, or bring a nice garments, because you always want to be presentable in the professional circumstances. Lastly, bring something that reminds you of where it came from. Just because I study in the UK doesn't make me a British person. Just because I come to the USA doesn’t make me an American. I'm fundamentally a Chinese person.