Season 2: Episode 5: Ignacio Zabala Alonso

International Arbitration Lawyer licensed in NY, Spain and England & Wales, McDermott Will & Emery

Ignacio Zabala Alonso

International Arbitration Lawyer licensed in NY, Spain and England & Wales, McDermott Will & Emery

How did he turn his BigLaw externship into a post-graduation job offer?

When Ignacio walked out of his first interview for a competitive externship position, he wasn’t feeling optimistic. He was thrown off his pace by the interviewer’s first question: “So, do you have any questions for me?” He managed to get hired as an extern anyway in the International Arbitration Group at McDermott Will & Emery. The externship later turned into a long-term position that allowed him to stay with the firm after he graduated with his LLM degree.

How did he turn things around during the interview, even if he felt like he started off on the wrong foot? How did he turn the externship into a long-term position? What is expected of an internationally trained lawyer like Ignacio in BigLaw? Being a licensed attorney in Spain, England & Wales, what’s Ignacio’s take on the work culture difference between BigLaw in the U.S. and in Europe?

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Why did you study law?

I'm from Madrid, Spain, and I pursued a bachelor's degree in Law and Political Science there. I chose this path because it offers numerous career options in Spain, including becoming a civil servant or working as an attorney in consulting firms. I decided to become an attorney after taking a class with a professor who was a practicing lawyer at a prominent law firm in Spain. I was impressed by his teaching style, even though the class was quite challenging. I received a modest score of five out of ten, but I genuinely enjoyed the subject matter. After that class, I was convinced that practicing law was my true calling.

You are not only licensed to practice law in Spain, you're also licensed in England & Wales. Have you practiced there?

I have not practiced law in England. I decided to begin my legal journey in Europe before Brexit. You see, lawyers who were not trained in England could pass an exam called the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Scheme (QLTS). Now, the name has changed, and the procedure is different. It's called the QE. So it's not as straightforward as it was a few years ago, but I can also provide some insight into the American legal system if that would be helpful. I took the QLTS while quarantining due to the pandemic because in Spain, it was impossible to go out. So I stayed in and studied for the exam.

At the time, I was working at a law firm, so my days were like this: I wake up at 8 am, and by 8:05, I was already working. Then, when I shut down my laptop and be done with work, I would immediately start studying for English law. That's how I decided to pursue this path.

After the pandemic, I had the opportunity to travel to the United States for a semester at William & Mary Law School in Virginia. It’s in a beautiful village called Williamsburg. It's a very colonial and picturesque place, perfect for a weekend trip. I received a full scholarship for this exchange program from my Spanish law school. This experience changed things for me, and it was then that I decided to come to Georgetown University to pursue a third jurisdiction, hopefully the last one.

Many internationally trained lawyers are interested in pursuing a career in international arbitration. You are a lawyer in the field. Tell us about your journey. Is your LL.M. specialization related to your current practice area?

Yes, I'm working with McDermott’s international arbitration team. The journey to get here was quite crazy, to be honest. In my first semester, I had to make a decision. I chose not to take any arbitration classes, although I did attend Introduction to Commercial Arbitration class. I highly recommend an introductory course to anyone interested in international arbitration.

Despite not taking specific arbitration-related classes in my first semester, there were some courses that, while not directly related, provided enough credits for me to pursue the arbitration certificate. I made this choice because, in the end, arbitration is a procedural field, and to excel in it, you need to have a solid understanding of the substantive and procedural rules.

How did you find the externship at McDermott? And how did you turn the externship into a permanent position?

I found the externship through the law school Pre-Approved Externships Database TIPS Symplicity website.

I don't know if previous speakers have explained this, but you guys just cold email a lawyer and say, "Hey, I don't know if you need help, but I can work and study at the same time during the second semester for free." If the lawyer is willing to offer you an externship position, you're able to extern with them. I know people who got externships that way.

My path was more regulated in that way because I applied through the application process. I was lucky enough that before applying, I attended events organized by the Georgetown International Arbitration Society. I met some lawyers who is now my boss and my friends. We talked, and that's how we introduced ourselves a little bit.

The networking helps with my interview skills. My interview was different from the typical interview questions one would get. My interviewer started by asking, "Do you have any questions?" It's not exactly how you expect an interview to start. I was nervous and thought I didn't do a good job, but I got the externship. During the externship, I was also fortunate that they had enough work to offer me a long-term position, giving me an opportunity to continue my work with them.

You managed to get hired for a competitive externship opportunity, which later turned into a permanent position. From your own assessment, what qualities made you stand out from other candidates?

I don't know my qualities, but I will say that in general, I try to be myself in interviews. I've observed how other candidates conducted themselves in similar interviews, and my approach is to aim for a sense of normalcy. Honestly, that's my primary goal. After that, I try to show who I am without embellishing my qualifications. I believe in being candid, presenting what I know and what I've accomplished, and setting realistic expectations for what I hope to learn during the externship.

If the interviewer sees that I am genuine, straightforward, and honest, I believe it earns me points. Here in America, in particular, is very important to sell yourself, as good as you can, to the best of your capabilities because Americans are very good at selling themselves. So if we are competing in a job market against Americans who are masters of marketing, we need to be learn to be as good as them. Just to put the highlight in our strengths. When the weakness comes up, just be candid, say like, well yeah, this is true, but don’t forget that I have all these strengths. And we as international lawyers, we have that main skills that most Americans do not have. That is that we speak two or more languages. That’s actually a very important selling point, especially in fields like international arbitration, where document review and discovery are prevalent.

The Spanish language skill seems to be critical in the practice area of international arbitration, what’s your assessment in the specific language skills needed in the practice?

I haven't utilized my Spanish skills much lately. It's very funny that they hired me and I’ve been working primarily in English. In international arbitration, I can't speak for different fields, having Spanish on your resume is not necessarily a must, but it's incredibly valuable to learn and know Spanish. If you don't speak Spanish, that doesn’t mean that you can’t get a job as an international arbitration lawyer. In such cases, you should focus on highlighting your other strengths. There are numerous arbitrations involving French-speaking countries, and the demand for Chinese attorneys is growing as well.

You started at McDermott as an extern. After you completed your externship, they decided to hire you for good. How did you turn your externship opportunity into a permanent position?

I believe that much of what was under my control during that time was quite limited, to be honest. Many people strive to secure a permanent position either through an externship or other means. The critical factor is whether the firm has an opening available at the outset. In my case, I was fortunate that the firm had an opening, and they decided to hire me, likely because someone noticed my contributions. It's important to note that the potential for advancement often depends on the demands and expectations of your supervisors.

My recommendation would be to give your best effort during your externship while keeping in mind that you are still a student. This is essential because, as we know, law firms can sometimes overlook the fact that you are an unpaid intern. Nevertheless, whenever you receive an assignment, regardless of whether it involves legal research or client notes, even if it appears basic, strive to complete it impeccably. Aim for perfection, as if your supervisor who reviews it should be able to read it without needing to change a single comma. This should be your goal for every work product you produce during your externship.

Could you talk about your BigLaw experience in the U.S. versus in Europe? What’s the difference in terms of work culture?

There's a huge difference in work culture, as Americans live to work. It's quite the contrast; in Spain, you'll find that offices are practically deserted during August, with many people at the beach and very few working. It's challenging for me to adjust to the idea of working during August. Fortunately, the weather isn't consistently sunny, which eases the transition, but it can still be quite a change.

Your work primarily involves writing, and when you write in English, you are competing against native English speakers. This means that they won't necessarily expect perfection, but they will scrutinize your writing more closely than they would a native speaker's. So, the bar is set higher for us in this regard, which is distinct from other law firms I've worked in.

My advice is to continue writing in English. Attempt to write articles about the readings you encounter. Do your best to write as much as you can. This includes outlines and study materials for finals. Preparing in this way will help you exceed the expectations typically set for international lawyers during your externship.

How did you network during your LLM year to find your externship, which eventually becomes your job?

To be honest, if your goal is to find a job, networking must be your top priority. Initially, I tried reaching out to as many people as possible. I sought out and found someone who was a year ahead of me. His approach to networking was a bit like saying yes to various opportunities and trying to connect with many people, with the hope that something will happen eventually. However, I only did that for the first month or so, and it was very time-consuming and not very efficient. So, I wouldn't recommend that approach.

Instead, I prefer targeting someone I'm genuinely interested in and working on creating a connection by showing a sincere interest in their practice, or even in something unrelated to law. For instance, a very famous Spanish arbitrator came to Washington for a conference, and I reached out to him. He responded, and we met for coffee. During our conversation, I asked him about his new project, which caught his attention because I was genuinely interested. We become friends. Even today, we stay in touch via email.

It's very important to be interested in the people and the work they do you're connecting with. Regarding follow-up, it's crucial, and it's something I'm also learning. However, the basic idea is not to forget to follow up because people can easily forget about you. I experienced this with another lawyer I contacted during the early stages of my LLM program, but I didn't follow up with him towards the end. He mentioned that he had a job opening in New York, and if I had followed up, it could have ended up in NYC.

How did you identify the people whom you want to connect with?

Here's what I did: I tried to identify law firms that had Spanish-speaking clients or cases in general. Then, I visited the law firm's website. Many law firm websites have powerful search engines, which allow you to search by practice area or even by the languages spoken within the firm. So, I used this feature to see if there were any attorneys who spoke Spanish at these firms. Please note that this approach may vary depending on your specific circumstances. Once I found someone who spoke Spanish and was related to arbitration or the area of my interest, I would send them a detailed email.

When I say "detailed," I don't mean crafting an entirely new email for each person. You'll likely have a draft email, but the key is to have at least one paragraph that is customized exclusively for that individual. People can often tell when they receive a generic, copy-paste email. In today's competitive job market, people may not respond to emails that feel impersonal or artificial. They are more likely to engage with someone who has taken the time to craft a message that feels personal and relevant to them.

What activities or student associations did you participate in law school that you find helpful for your subsequent career?

I would recommend joining at least one student association, because it's just an American experience. When I first came to law school in the U.S., I initially found the associations somewhat unfamiliar. However, they are an integral part of the American legal culture. These associations often have various journals and activities. You'll likely find that there's a specific LL.M. representative position within these associations. When you apply for such a position, you'll be competing against LL.M. students from various backgrounds, as well as J.D. students. This competition can serve as good practice for marketing yourself.

In this context, my advice remains the same: emphasize your strengths while being candid about your weaknesses. However, you don't need to be overly humble when it comes to your weaknesses in your application. It's essential to present yourself as a strong candidate. Regarding competition, what I mean is friendly competition. In my year, we had a very friendly atmosphere. We often shared job opportunities with each other, especially when we knew someone might be interested. We were not in competition to undermine each other but to support one another's success. So, my advice would that: don’t be a bad friend, help each other, and foster a supportive environment among your peers.