Season 2: Episode 8: Ruoke Liu

Partner, Investment Funds, Morgan Lewis

Ruoke Liu

Partner, Investment Funds, Morgan Lewis

When Ruoke graduated from law school, the U.S. economy was in the midst of the subprime crisis. The job market posed unprecedented challenges. Undeterred, she persisted and eventually secured a position in the investment funds practice group.

Now, as a hiring partner at Morgan Lewis, she interviewed and hired many candidates. What lawyering skills and qualifications do BigLaw firms seek when hiring internationally trained lawyers? What advice does her have on effective networking? What was her most important takeaway about legal writing? Why does she believe that listening to English improves writing as a non-native speaker?

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Where did your journey in the law begin?

Sixteen years ago, I was an international student at the University of Chicago. I completed my first law degree in China before coming to the U.S. I attended a law school in suburban China and chose law due to my perception of being a well-rounded individual. Even before attending law school or speaking with any practicing lawyers, I had a vague notion of what the legal profession entailed. I believed law covered a wide array of subjects necessary to excel as a lawyer. This perception matched my personality well.

Moreover, taking the Chinese national entrance exam for my province and securing the top position encouraged me to apply to one of the top law colleges in China, my college of choice. I was informed that law was one of the best majors at the college, making it a suitable option for me. Hence, I pursued law. The question of changing professions arose around the time I came to the U.S. for my master's degree. I contemplated shifting to finance, influenced by the abundance of opportunities and the presence of many friends in the business world.

Looking back, I realize that finance indeed presented numerous prospects at the time. However, upon arriving in the U.S. for law school, I hesitated to change professions, considering that I was already a lawyer in China.

How did you find your first job?

My first job was at Bingham McCutchen. Eventually, Bingham McCutchen merged with Morgan Lewis, where I am currently. It’s been nine years since then. Time flies! Back in law school, I had an interview with a senior partner at Bingham McCutchen whose expertise lay in investment management. We hit it off instantly - sometimes, it's all about the chemistry. Looking back, I realize he was not only very nice but exceptionally intelligent. His practice area, Investment management, aligned with one of my interests.

I was interested in how vast sums of money are managed by investment managers—millions, sometimes billions of dollars entrusted to them by various investors. This included sovereign wealth funds and endowments of prestigious institutions Ivy League universities. I was particularly intrigued by the legal dynamics of this relationship.

Around that time, China had just introduced its first-ever mutual fund law. This was a significant development. One of my friends, who also shared the same supervising professor as I did, played a crucial role in drafting that law. It's fascinating how our interests and paths align in unexpected ways.

What was the job market like when you graduated? What’s your advice for international students in law school who wants to find a job in the U.S.?

So, during my time in law school, the job market was extremely challenging. International students typically need an H-1B visa unless you're a U.S. citizen or hold a green card. In my graduating year, the H-1B visa quota wasn't even filled due to the challenging job market.

Many associate positions were being deferred for two to three years before the firm lets you begin. The 2008 financial crisis had a profound impact on the U.S. economy. I took a year off during that period and returned to law school as a JD student in 2009, which was a time of great job market uncertainty. It was a challenging period to secure employment.

I went to law school in University of Chicago. Under the normal circumstances, even for the bottom of the class, finding a job in 'BigLaw' was possible due to the small class size of around 200 students and the high demand for Chicago law graduates in large law firms. However, during my year, many of my friends faced difficulties in securing such positions due to the challenging job market.

My advice to you regarding the current job market is to stay resilient. While the job market might be better than what I faced in 2009, there are still uncertainties such as concerns about economic slowdown and geopolitical tensions like the situation between Ukraine and the ongoing tensions between the U.S. and China. Persevere through the frustrations and setbacks.

Almost everyone these days finds jobs through networking. Would you share your advice on networking?

The most effective networking approach, at least for me, is to build upon your existing relationships. If a random person approaches me for a job, I might think, 'Maybe they're good, maybe not.' However, if someone I trust suggests, 'Oh, you should talk to this person,' I'll definitely make time for the candidate. So, my advice is to network effectively by leveraging your existing connections.

If you're in a large firm and searching for a job, consider reaching out to your current network - your classmates, former colleagues, people you've worked with before. Begin conversations and inquire about potential opportunities in various offices or firms, depending on your preferences. Ask them to keep you in mind when relevant opportunities arise. The job search process can take time. It's crucial not to wait until you're about to graduate. Even if you don't secure a job right after graduation, that's okay. Use this time to plan and think ahead.

What is the most important takeaways about legal writing for you in law school and throughout your career?

For a lawyer, writing is your work product. Whether it's advice given through emails, agreements, or memos, it's all conveyed through writing. English is not my native language, I dedicate time to focus on improving my writing. Whenever I have a moment, I pay attention to how others write. I read various kinds of articles, diversifying my reading, not confining myself to just newspapers.

I find it helpful to integrate listening into my routine. During daily activities like brushing teeth or washing my face, I listen to podcasts such as The New York Times or The Wall Street Journal. A writing coach once told me that listening to a variety of content can paradoxically enhance your writing. I adopted this advice and continue to do so.

One important aspect to note is that writing often precedes clear thinking. As someone whose first language isn't English, crafting eloquent, poetic prose can be challenging, though not impossible. Writing clearly requires clear thinking. Randomly putting words down on paper is counterproductive. It's about making your thoughts coherent and structured.

Sometimes, less is more. My husband, a native English speaker and an excellent writer, has taught me the art of condensing sentences. It's about conveying in one sentence what might initially take three. Remove unnecessary elements. Think about why you need to say something and if it truly adds value. If not, eliminate it.

As a partner in BigLaw, you have interviewed and hired candidates for positions at your firm? What are firms looking for when hiring internationally trained lawyers?

You must possess strong lawyering skills. If you lack prior work experience, focus on showcasing your potential. I can easily assess a person's potential by looking at their accomplishments. If you had relevant prior work experience, that's a plus. In my role as a recruiting partner for our practice group in DC, and having recruited for the entire DC office at the University of Chicago, I consider the practice group's specific needs. For instance, if we're seeking someone for a transactional role, prior experience in private transaction practice would be ideal. On the other hand, for litigation roles, prior work experience is a great advantage.

During an interview, your resume and prior experience set the stage. Beyond that, it's about ensuring you can communicate naturally and confidently. Some law students tend to get too nervous during interviews. It's crucial to appear composed and confident. During interviews, it's important to convey your thoughts naturally, having talking points in mind, but not reciting them rigidly like a script.

The job search can be a long and arduous process. If someone isn't being hired, it doesn't reflect on their ability as a lawyer. It could simply mean that the particular opening they applied for isn't the best match. It's important not to take it personally. Behind the scenes, firms weigh many factors in the hiring process. The lawyer's quality is a significant aspect, but just one of many.

So, my advice is not to overthink and to keep persisting in your search. In your career, there will inevitably be ups and downs. During the low points, remember that many factors are beyond your control. One thing you can control is your continuous investment in yourself — nurturing your skills, networking, and being proactive. You never know when an opportunity might arise. Just keep at it, and don't give up. Things will work out.