Season 3: Episode 6: João Marçal Martins
Partner and Co-Head of International Arbitration at DLA Piper Latin America
Joao Marcal Martins
International litigation and arbitration lawyer in cooperation with DLA Piper in Brazil
Joao, a partner at a firm in cooperation with DLA Pipers’ Sao Paulo office. Joao grew up in Rio de Janeiro with lawyers in the family. His aunt was the state attorney. He speaks three languages and works in international litigation and arbitration. How did he meet and get coffee with his role model – a renowned litigator in the U.S. by sending a cold email? What lawyering skills are among the most important to enable him to work in international arbitration?
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Where did you grow up?
I grew up in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
Why did you choose to study law?
I’m from a family of lawyers. So I grew up listening to a lot of stories about lawyers, and the judiciary system. My aunt was a state attorney in Rio de Janeiro. And she's really close to me. So I think that she influenced me a lot. My father is an engineer. My mom is a teacher of Portuguese literature. My aunt would send me a lot of articles. She is the most important to influence me to pursue a career at law.
What languages do you speak?
Portuguese, English and Spanish.
Your firm works in cooperation with DLA Pipers. What do you do as a lawyer?
I work in Brazil on civil procedure, litigation, domestic and international arbitrations, and administrative proceedings. My clients are multinational corporations doing business in Brazil.
What is the most interesting part of your job? And do you have any interesting stories to share in the multilingual legal context?
The most interesting thing about my job is to come up with the legal argument. How can I respond in a complaint? How can I answer in a persuasive way? When you are preparing for a hearing, you will never know what is going to happen in court. A former boss told me that the client is your worst enemy in court. You can go to a hearing, having read all the documents the client has sent you. Then all of a sudden a certain witness say something I didn't know about. And you have to think fast and respond in a way that the tribunal or the judge will understand that.
I was an LLM student studying at University of Pennsylvania, I was reading a book about a law firm called Williams & Connolly in Washington, DC. I learned about a well-known lawyer named Brendan Sullivan. One day I was studying for my finals, a thought came to me: “Why don’t I send an email to Brendan Sullivan and ask him to have coffee?” I shot an email to Mr. Sullivan. The first answer was from his secretary saying, “Oh, Mr. Sullivan's on vacation.” So I thought it’s just a formal way to say no. A few days later, Mr. Sullivan wrote me an email saying, Oh, nice to meet you, Let me know next time when you are in DC. And then I said, Oh, I will be in DC in 10 days from now. So I went to DC. Mr. Sullivan received me really well. We spent one hour and a half talking about Brazil, career in the law, hearings, our cases. I posted a photo with him to my Instagram accounts.
Why did you choose to study law in the United States?
The main reason was the Socratic Method in the U.S. law school. In Brazil, the teaching is mostly lecture style. You go to class. The professor teaches you about the law. You take notes. The class is over. I want to open my mind to a completely different legal system – the common law system.
What is the most important takeaways from your legal education in the United States?
The networking culture is strong in the US. And it's funny because Brazilians are known for being friendly. But when you are in a business event, Brazilians are afraid to connect. You don't seem insincere when doing the networking, you really want to demonstrate interest to know and meet people. And at the end of the day, it's all about who you know. Someone might refer a case or co-author a book.
Do you have any tips or lessons learned from your own experience of networking with American lawyers?
When I was at Wharton, I had a class about efficient networking. In Brazil, it's hard to imagine a course on networking. The first tip is don't be afraid to send cold emails or WhatsApp messages to network. Tell them how you know them and why you want to meet. The second tip is to recommend people you see fit for opportunities. So when you recommend someone that you think that it would be good for the company, and if your recommendation works out, you gain goodwill for future business. The person you recommended may return the favor. And that's how networking works.
How does your legal education United States impact your subsequent career?
It has a huge impact, not only because my legal knowledge expanded, now I have a better understanding of the common law system. I work on international in cooperation with DLA Piper. The firm has more than 40 jurisdictions. When I have a conference call with our global offices, it’s helpful to know the challenges my colleagues from common law countries are facing. So to them, I’m not only a lawyer from Brazil. I studied law at UPenn. My clients and colleagues appreciate and value that background.
Is there any specific TV shows or movies that inspire or inform your impression of American legal profession?
Suits. It's not what happens in practice, but it's a good and funny TV show. Lawyers don’t have good rep in general, especially in Brazil. There are a lot of jokes about lawyers. Lawyers only stress people out. They don't have fun. Suites is a good show you can watch while eating popcorn.
What is your impression of the American legal profession?
The American law firms begin the movement of global law firms. American firms and Brazilian firms are incomparable in terms of revenue, headcount, etc. I think that how American lawyers think about globalization and work in cross border deals is something that inspired me to not only study in the US, but also work in the US, and then going back to Brazil.
Law schools teach students to “think like a lawyer.” What does that statement mean to you?
To like a lawyer is to think about risks. When you're not a lawyer, you can be blinded to a situation with rosy outcome. A lawyer think in a careful and prudent way.
In your work helping multinational corporations doing business in Brazil, could you tell me more about your thought process in the multilingual legal context?
Working with different clients, colleagues in different jurisdictions is challenging. You will have to think about the different culture and practice. Something accepted as a tradition in Brazil may not be so in the US. For example, preparing a witness before a hearing. In certain jurisdictions, you are not allowed to have meetings before a hearing with our witness. In the West, for instance, witness preparation is necessary and allowed. Another example is forum shopping. In the US, it is your duty as counsel to seek the best venue and forum for your client. In other jurisdictions, that is not allowed.
What are the important lawyering skills that enable you to do what you do well?
How to structure your oral argument in the most persuasive and articulate way. In Brazil, we are so focused on how to structure your arguments in writing. When it comes to oral argument, you have to learn in practice. Moot court is a good way to practice your oral argument skills.
