Season 5: Episode 5: Pauline Marie Gairanod

International Attorney at Milbank LLP in Munich, Germany

Pauline Marie Gairanod

International Attorney at Milbank LLP in Munich, Germany

How did a LLM get hired at BigLaw in Germany?

Pauline, a Philippines-trained M&A lawyer with five years of experience, was studying for her LLM at UPenn, when she began exploring opportunities in BigLaw in Europe.  She reached out to a partner at the M&A group at Milbank in Germany. The partner soon responded and informed her that there was no openings at the M&A group. Pauline asked whether it’s possible to keep her resume on file in case there’s opening in other groups. She thought that was the end of the story. However, a few weeks later Pauline received an email from the partner mentioning a potential opening in the banking and finance group. After a few exploratory interviews, Milbank flew Pauline to Munich for the final round of in-person interview. The interview process lasted four days and took place just one week before the New York bar exam! Pauline was offered the job while she was at the airport waiting to board her flight back to the U.S. One week later, she took the New York bar exam, which she passed at her first attempt.

I’m so grateful that Pauline reached out to me with this touching message. To quote her, “while my team is great, there were many days when I felt very lonely, very different and very scared. The (Master of Laws) Interviews assured me that other people have done the same and thrived, and that in an increasingly globalized professional landscape it just takes time but I will find my place. It helped me feel less alone.” Pauline is one of the reasons I continue searching for stories like hers for our cohort of internationally trained lawyers around the world!

Pauline’s story is full of gems. She shared an insightful Harvard Business Review article her friends kept forwarding to her about the cultural nuances in international negotiation; and a funny story about why her client asked for “fabric softener” (or “weichmacher”) during a negotiation.

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Could you share a bit about your background?

I grew up in Zamboanga City, a beautiful city with currently less than a million people by the sea in the southern part of the Philippines. I lived there until I was about 15, then moved to Metro Manila to attend university and later law school. Although it’s the capital and has grown exponentially, many in Metro Manila still consider Zamboanga provincial.

When I was growing up, everybody knew everybody. We had one mall, and it was a big deal when it opened. We didn't have McDonald's or any chain stores. I graduated from a small, conservative Catholic private high school, so at heart, I’m still a small-town girl from the tropics.

I ended up in Munich after taking a position as a foreign attorney in the banking and global leveraged finance practice group at Milbank's German offices. This came after completing my LLM at the University of Pennsylvania. It was quite a leap from growing up in Zamboanga to going through law school and then my LLM, but somehow I ended up here.

How did the Foreign Attorney position at Milbank Munich Office come along?

I outrightly applied for the German offices of Milbank while doing my LLM. I did not apply for jobs in the U.S. because the H1B lottery system was a significant hurdle. As you may know, the odds of getting past the lottery are pretty low—last I checked, less than 10% of applicants get selected in the last cycle. I realized that if I took a position in the U.S., the chances of staying there would be fairly slim. I'm not the type of person to take on short-term employment, especially if that employment would be tentative.

I started looking at Europe specifically because I didn't want to deal with the lottery. Most job offers come with a caveat: they might hire you not as a lawyer, but as a law clerk or in another position. If you get past the lottery, then you become a full-time associate and are considered a lawyer by the firm. Of course, that’s conditional on passing the New York bar or whatever U.S. license you’re aiming for.

In my case, I wanted to practice in Europe. While many assumed I would head to London, I had to consider that London is a common law jurisdiction, and I come from a civil law background. The biggest civil law jurisdiction in Europe is Germany, so it made more sense for me to look for options here. That’s why I specifically sought out a position at Milbank Germany, rather than transitioning from Milbank New York.

Another huge reason for my decision to look toward Germany and Europe in general was quality of life. At that point in my career, I wanted to settle down somewhere that felt stable. While I absolutely loved my time in the U.S. and built a great network of friends in my LLM program, I felt certain aspects of life were more stable in Europe, particularly in Germany. I communicated easily in English, but I sensed that healthcare and other systems in Germany offered a level of security I was seeking. The idea of having a permanent position, without the stress of the lottery system, was very appealing.

Why did you choose to study law?

My grandfather was a lawyer, and my father’s brother was as well. When I was a child visiting my grandmother in my father’s hometown, people would often ask if there would be a third-generation lawyer. The expectation was initially for my brother or one of the male cousins, but I was a cheeky kid with gumption, so I thought, why not me? Fortunately, I had a very empowering father. In a country and a small city where some still believe sons are more valuable than daughters, my father taught me that I could be anything I wanted. So I decided I would become a lawyer. I completed my LLM at the University of Pennsylvania during the academic year 2022-2023.

For context, the Philippines was hit hard by COVID-19, in a way that other countries found incredulous. We had doctors dying from treating COVID patients without proper protective equipment, and many people died untreated due to lack of space and resources in hospitals. The private sector stepped up to vaccinate the population quickly, but in 2021, when I was applying for the LLM, we were still under community quarantine, with curfews and mask mandates. We faced government corruption controversies over COVID supplies and even police shootings related to quarantine violations.

That climate made me confront my mortality, prompting questions like: Have I done everything I wanted to do? Have I learned everything I wanted to learn? These reflections drove me to apply to LLM programs. I chose UPenn because I wanted to attend an Ivy League school with a strong background in corporate law. Before banking and finance, I was a corporate M&A lawyer with a side specialization in antitrust. UPenn has a great reputation for corporate law, and its partnership with the Wharton School allows law students to take classes taught by top business professors. I took advantage of the strong link between the law and business schools, enrolling in joint classes and even some MBA courses to credit toward my LLM units.

What languages do you speak? Do you need to speak German to practice law in Germany?

I speak Filipino and English, and I have a very rudimentary understanding of Spanish. For context, the Philippines was a Spanish colony for 333 years, and Spanish influence is particularly strong in my hometown. It was one of the first and largest settlements in the country and was even designated by Philip IV as the main headquarters of the Spanish military during the conquest. While the national language of the Philippines is Filipino, commonly referred to by foreigners as Tagalog, the people in my city speak Chavacano, which is a Spanish-based Creole language.

My great-grandmother spoke Spanish fluently, so that helped me understand it. I don’t speak Spanish very well, but I can follow along if someone talks to me.

I work at the banking and global leveraged finance practice group at Milbank’s German offices, based in Munich. In finance, long-form documentation is often in English because major financing deals involve people from different countries. English really is the common language. That said, I don’t need to learn German to do my job. Occasionally, there is correspondence in German, and I do deal with German lawyers, which sometimes involves German security documentation.

In those cases, other team members step up to handle the German law-specific components or help me understand the correspondence. So far, German isn’t very necessary for my work, but I believe learning the language is important for adjusting to life here. Thankfully, Milbank has been very supportive of that. I take German language classes on the side when I have time, and Milbank covers the costs. However, it's really more for my day-to-day comfort than for my job.

Could you talk about your job search process? How did you end up working for Milbank in Germany?

When I started the LLM program, I wasn't keen on moving to another country or practicing in a different jurisdiction. I was happy at a large law firm in the Philippines, where I had a great team and excellent mentors. My intention was to return home after the LLM and continue my work in the corporate and commercial law department. However, during the program, I found myself questioning whether I had learned enough or been exposed to enough. That led me to consider other jurisdictions and apply to big law firms. I told myself that if the universe presented me with opportunities, it would be a sign that I should pursue them.

As you know, people usually apply for postings at larger law firms through specific portals, but these aren't exclusive to LLM students. Generally, those with US JDs tend to be more appealing in that process. For the limited postings for internationally qualified lawyers, the priority often goes to those fluent in languages like Spanish or Arabic. Unfortunately, the Philippines isn't typically among the preferred jurisdictions.

So, I figured if the opportunities aren't present, then, I have to make opportunities for myself. So, I went on the process of cold emailing. I emailed someone in Milbank, Germany. I was told, unfortunately, we do not have an opening in the Corporate and M&A Practice Group. And I thought, you know, that was it. I said, Thank You. Grateful if you could, you know, keep me in mind. I would say a month later, a few weeks later, I got an email from the partner: While we do not have a place in the Corporate and M&A Practice Group; Our Banking and Finance Practice Group is looking for someone. So we had an exploratory interview and then I went through a series of interviews at first via Zoom. And then, on the last interview, they asked if I would fly to Germany. This was to happen one week before the New York Bar and then I flew to Germany, did the interviews in person this time. And then on the day that I flew back to the U.S., they made the offer. 

Wow. I loved that story – flying to Germany for the job interview one week before the New York bar, and got the job offer before you flying back to the U.S. And you passed the bar at the first try!

I really couldn't have done it without the kindness of many people. We had a generous partner at Milbank who, despite being from a different practice group, recalled an opportunity in another group and emailed me weeks, even months, after our initial contact. He kept his word and thought of me. Then I met the incredible head of my practice group, who was very open to working with a lawyer from a jurisdiction they don’t commonly deal with.

At the same time, while I was processing my Schengen visa to fly to Germany for the final interviews, I was also reviewing for the New York bar. My LLM study group at Penn really came through for me. They handled many things, like Airbnb reservations for the New York bar days, since I couldn’t manage a lot of other tasks. It was truly the kindness of people that allowed me to go through the process as seamlessly as possible.

What qualities or work experience the law firms are looking for when hiring internationally trained lawyers?

I think first and foremost is adaptability. In my case, they saw a willingness to transition practice groups. I did corporate M&A for five years, along with antitrust, so that's what I focused on for most of my time.

For context, in Germany, they tend to start practicing fairly late. The number of years before becoming a lawyer in Germany and the Philippines is quite similar. In the Philippines, you complete a bachelor's degree, then go to law school for four or five years before sitting for the bar exams. In Germany, the process is also lengthy—about seven years total before you take the bar exams. They have two state bars, and in between, there’s a requirement to acquire work experience, which is why many lawyers begin their practice around 29 or 30. By the time I hit that age, I had already been working for quite a while, so I didn’t feel out of place. I think that’s why Germany was compatible for me.

Secondly, I could demonstrate how the skills I acquired in my previous roles were flexible and transferable to banking and finance. This is something firms hiring internationally qualified lawyers look for.

Thirdly, work experience plays a significant role, even if my acquisition finance experience isn’t extensive. I had worked on major deals, albeit from the corporate M&A side, so I made sure to showcase my project financing experience during discussions. This demonstrated that I understood different sides of transactions, which would help me be effective as a banking and finance lawyer.

Finally, Communication skills are also essential. People often underestimate their importance, but being able to draft well and precisely is crucial, regardless of jurisdiction. Coming from Germany, where precision is highly valued, I think it made them comfortable knowing I could clearly express myself both in writing and verbally. This means I could effectively communicate with clients and efficiently articulate my thoughts on paper. You need to be open to new experiences.

Believe me, there are still many things that are a struggle for me. I moved to Germany knowing very few people; literally, the only people I knew here were friends from the LLM program. I don’t have family nearby, so I can’t easily hop on a plane and be home in a couple of hours. For context, it's a 21-hour flight from Munich to Manila, and from Manila to my hometown, it's maybe another two hours. The time difference can be tough too. Even though Munich is becoming more international, people still generally prefer to speak German, which can make you feel out of place and alone.

It can get very lonely as someone who isn’t from the country where they work. This is a common experience for many LLMs, especially those from Latin American or European countries who move to the U.S. because we want to grow as lawyers and gain exposure to bigger experiences. For me, I wanted to work on larger deals in a bigger market and gain real big law experience, so I took the leap. It can be jarring, so you need to be kinder to yourself, especially in your first few years in a new country.

You need to be open to new experiences and remember that you’re doing this to improve yourself and become a better lawyer. The world can benefit from lawyers with broader perspectives who come from diverse experiences, as those experiences inform how they negotiate deals and navigate important commercial considerations. Especially since this is the Master of Laws Interviews Project, know that you have a network and a community, which helps you feel less alone.

Could you talk about what you do at Milbank in Germany?

Our practice group is about six lawyers, very small, at least here in the Munich offices. Of course, we also have banking and finance lawyers in the Frankfurt office. But, you know, I have a very kind and brilliant team. And you know, I had a partner who took a chance on me, who is very brilliant, quick thinker, and just makes sure that I have the opportunities to learn. I have a special counsel, I guess, the Milbank equivalent of a senior associate who recognizes the cultural differences between Filipinos and Germans, and makes sure that when I am part of a deal.

You are a Philippines-trained and New-York-licensed lawyer practicing law in Germany. Could you talk about the cultural nuances you encountered in your daily work?  

Over the past few months, people have been forwarding me a graph from a 2014 Harvard Business Review article Navigating the Cultural Minefield by Erin Meyer. It sorts nationalities according to how confrontational and emotionally expressive they are, which you might think go hand in hand, but they often don’t. The y-axis maps emotional expressiveness, while the x-axis maps confrontational tendencies. In essence, in the upper right quadrant, you have countries that are emotionally expressive but avoid confrontation. In the lower left quadrant, you find countries that are confrontational but emotionally unexpressive. The funny thing is that the Philippines and Germany are diagonally farthest apart on this graph.

Filipinos are very emotionally expressive; we're a culture of "I love yous," hugs, and kisses, while we tend to avoid confrontation. In contrast, Germany is highly emotionally unexpressive and also quite confrontational. My friends from the Philippines, the U.S., and the rest of Europe keep forwarding me this graph and always ask, "Are you okay? How are you dealing with it?"

My only answer is that I have mentors who are as kind as they are brilliant, and teammates who have helped me throughout the adjustment process. My biggest stroke of luck in life has always been having amazing mentors from day one. To this day, I’m still in touch with my mentors from the Philippines, who keep track of my professional progress and provide different perspectives on how to market myself and become more visible.

Here in Germany, there’s a significant cultural gap. You asked earlier if there are struggles for me as a multilingual lawyer, and to be honest, the struggle isn't with the language. The real struggle is the cultural differences. Most of my work is in English, so language isn't the issue; it's the cultural differences coming from the Philippines. We tend to be gentle as a people, especially when it comes to wanting things. We often hesitate to ask for help. In a professional context, if you're negotiating and there are certain no-go areas, you must work in your clients' best interests, and sometimes you need to be confrontational.

However, in the workplace, we often try to handle everything ourselves because we’re hesitant to ask others for assistance or to assert ourselves as strongly as our German counterparts do. That was a big adjustment for me, and it still is a learning process. One key piece of advice for younger lawyers is to find mentors who are not only brilliant in their fields but also incredibly kind and willing to help you learn.

Do you have a funny story to share about the misunderstanding caused by linguistic and cultural differences?

There have been many funny stories about me not understanding certain nuances, with someone stepping in to clarify. Generally, emails are in English, and any German terms can be easily translated if I don’t understand them. But there have definitely been some amusing incidents. For instance, earlier this year, while working on a deal, I received an email that used the word "Weichmacher," which refers to fabric softener. I quickly asked a colleague for clarification. Were they really saying they were softening the ask, trying to compromise a bit? Because if taken literally, it sounded like they were asking for fabric softener, which definitely isn’t in my job description. My colleague laughed and confirmed that my interpretation was correct; there was no request for fabric softener. Apparently, it’s a colloquial expression that doesn’t translate well, if you’re only learning formal German.

Do you have any advice to the law students and new lawyers who aspire to build an international legal practice as you?

Connect with and help each other. I'm grateful for where I am precisely because I had people who took the time to connect with me and extend kindness. Kindness goes hand in hand with leadership in law. You shine not just by being a brilliant lawyer, but by being a leader. That’s what law firms look for. You take responsibility for your work and for the professional development of others. Our little LLM community across the world is vibrant, and I'm grateful to have been invited to share my experience.