Season 5: Episode 5: Pauline Marie Gairanod
Foreign Attorney at Milbank LLP in Munich, Germany
Pauline Marie Gairanod
Foreign Attorney at Milbank LLP in Munich, Germany
How did a LLM get hired at BigLaw in Germany?
Pauline, a Philippine-trained Corporate/M&A and Antitrust lawyer with five years of experience, was studying for her LLM at University of Pennsylvania when she began considering opportunities in BigLaw in Europe. She reached out to a partner in the Corporate/M&A practice group of Milbank in Germany with her resume and deal sheet (not realizing that cold-emailing is not as commonly done in Europe as it is in the US). The partner responded and informed her that there were no suitable openings in the practice group. Pauline appreciated that the partner took the time to carefully reply and asked whether it’s possible to keep her resume on file for any relevant opportunities in the firm. She thought that was the end of the story--however, a few weeks later, Pauline received an email from the partner about a potential opening in the banking and finance group. After a few exploratory interviews, Milbank flew Pauline to Munich for the final in-person interview. Pauline took a four-day trip to Germany for the interview, just one week before the New York bar exam! Pauline was offered the job over the phone while en route to the airport forher flight back to the US. One week later, she took the New York bar exam, which she passed on her first attempt.
I’m so grateful that Pauline reached out to me with this touching message: “While my team is great, there were many days when I felt very lonely, very different and very scared. The (Master of Laws) Interviews assured me that other people have done the same and thrived, and that in an increasingly globalized professional landscape, it just takes time, but I will find my place. They helped me feel less alone.” Pauline is one of the reasons I continue searching for stories like hers for our cohort of internationally trained lawyers around the world!
Pauline’s story is full of gems. She shared an insightful Harvard Business Review article her friends were forwarding to her about the cultural nuances in international negotiations; and a funny story about thinking a client had asked for “fabric softener” (or “weichmacher”).
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Could you share a bit about your background?
I grew up in Zamboanga City, a beautiful city by the sea in the southern part of the Philippines with currently less than a million people. Although it has grown exponentially over the years, many in Metro Manila, the capital, still consider Zamboanga “provincial".
When I was growing up, everybody knew everybody. I graduated from a conservative Catholic private high school where I had the most wonderful teachers and lifelong mentors who encouraged me to take on extracurricular activities that inadvertently prepared me for a career in law—debate team, student council, the school paper. I finished high school fairly young at 15 then moved to Metro Manila to attend university and then law school. I always say that despite having lived in 3 countries by now, I’m still a small-town girl from the tropics.
Currently, I’m a foreign attorney in the banking and global leveraged finance practice group of Milbank's German offices. I joined very shortly after completing my LLM at the University of Pennsylvania and the Business and Law Certificate at The Wharton School and taking the New York Bar. Prior to that, I was a Corporate/M&A and Antitrust lawyer in one of the most reputable law firms in Southeast Asia. It has definitely been quite an adventure, growing up in a small seaside town to going through university and law school away from family, practicing for years in a specific area of law then moving to the US for further studies…then somehow landing in Germany to work in an entirely new practice area.
How did the Foreign Attorney position at Milbank Munich Office come along?
When I began the LL.M, I honestly thought I would be returning home afterwards—I was happy in my previous firm. I had amazing mentors who invested in my training, a great team, wonderful clients I had good relationships with and my responsibilities in the firm had been steadily growing. My LL.M and Wharton classes, however, underscored that there is a bigger world for lawyers out there—I wanted to work on bigger transactions in a bigger market, rise up to bigger challenges, learn more, be more.
I opted not to take a job in the U.S. because I knew that the odds of getting past the H1B visa lottery are pretty low— I was told that, for lawyers, it’s about 9-11%.If I took an offer in the US, I knew that the chances of staying after the 1-year OPT period would be fairly slim. I'm not the type of person to take on short-term employment. So, I decided to see if there were opportunities for me in Europe. Germany is a civil law jurisdiction like the Philippines, in addition to being the third (or fourth, depending on the metrics you use) largest economy in the world.
It helped as well that in the Philippines, we start practice early, so even if I had to kind of start over, I would at least not be far ahead in age—we have about the same years of classroom training as Germany, but we do not have the clerkship system and sit for only one bar exam.
Many assumed the instinctive move would be to London if in Europe, but London is a common law jurisdiction, and I come from a civil law background. Funnily enough, I am now working on my UK bar qualification, primarily because English laws and forms govern a lot of the large transactions we handle in Milbank Germany.
Another huge reason for my decision to look towards Europe in general was quality of life. While I love my home country and feel well-adapted in the US (especially as the Philippines was a former US colony), there are aspects of life and systems/institutions in Europe that aligh better with my priorities.
Why did you choose to study law?
My grandfather on my father’s side was a lawyer, and my uncle, my father’s brother, was as well. When I was a child visiting my father’s hometown, people would often ask if there would be a third-generation lawyer. The expectation was initially for my brother or maybe one of the male cousins, but I was a cheeky kid with gumption, so I thought, why not me? Fortunately, I had very empowering parents. In a country and a small city where some still believe sons are more valuable than daughters, my parents taught me that I could be anything I wanted if I put my mind to it. So I decided I would become a lawyer.
I was initially preparing myself to be a litigator like my grandfather and uncle. In law school, my team won the Asian championship and, afterwards, the world championship of the Oxford University Price Moot Court Competition and as part of the legal aid requirement to graduate, I took on pro bono cases and appeared in court under the supervision of a licensed lawyer. But when I sat for the Philippine Bar Exam in 2016, it was a politically volatile time in the Philippines and, as with many young Filipino lawyers then, I was questioning the relative meaning of justice and the role that certain institutions play in dispensing it. I did not think I had what it took to be in litigation in a climate like that.
As to the LLM, I did my studies in 2022-2023 after the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. The Philippines was hit hard by COVID-19, especially in 2020-2021, in a way that other countries find incredulous. We had doctors dying from treating COVID patients without adequate protective equipment, and many people died untreated due to lack of space and resources in hospitals.
That climate made me confront my mortality, prompting questions like: Have I done everything I wanted to do? Have I learned everything I wanted to learn? So I decided, quite last-minute, to apply to do my LLM. I chose UPenn because I wanted to attend an Ivy League school with a strong background in corporate law. Corporate law is a core competence in UPnn and its partnership with the Wharton School allows law students to take classes taught by their best professors. I took advantage of the strong link between the law and business schools, enrolling in joint classes and even some MBA courses to credit toward my LLM units, on top of the classes I had to take for my Business and Law Certificate.
What languages do you speak? Do you need to speak German to practice law in Germany?
I speak Filipino and English, and I have a very rudimentary understanding of Spanish. I am, of course, also trying to learn German. For context, the Philippines was a Spanish colony for 333 years, and Spanish influence is particularly strong in my hometown. It was one of the first Spanish settlements in the country and was designated by Philip IV as the main headquarters of the Spanish military during the conquest. While the national language of the Philippines is Filipino, commonly referred to by foreigners as Tagalog, the people in my city speak Chavacano, which is a Spanish-based Creole language. My great-grandmother, being of Spanish lineage, also spoke Spanish fluently when I was young, so I can generally follow along if someone talks to me. From time to time, I even get to practice a line or two with local counsels we work with.
In banking and finance, which is a very international practice and particularly in international firms like Milbank, long-form documentation and negotiations are generally in English. Most deals involve banks, people and borrowing entities from different countries—English is the common language and much of the output is often driven primarily by negotiations. Thankfully, though strangely, I think and express myself, whether orally or in writing, better in English than even Filipino. Occasionally, when there is correspondence in German, my systems are set to auto-translate, so I really don’t miss a beat. Of course, when there are German-law specific concerns, such as in relation to German laws applicable to specific security documentation, other team members step in seamlessly.
While my lack of proficiency in German isn’t a deal-breaker for the work I do, I believe learning the language is important for adjusting to life here. TMilbank lets me take German language classes on the side when I have time. It is a very hard language to learn though—for example, English and Filipino are not gendered languages, while German is. The German language also uses special vowels that neither English nor Filipino typically use.
Could you talk about your job search process? How did you end up working for Milbank in Germany?
Like I said I found myself questioning whether I had learned enough or been exposed to enough as a lawyer. That led me to consider looking for opportunities in other jurisdictions (and Big Law, in general). But I pursued that decision fairly late (and at an odd time) in the year’s cycle—very close to graduation, in fact. By that time, openings in Europe and even the US were limited and, of course, favored homegrown lawyers.
So, I figured if the opportunities aren't present, then I have to make opportunities for myself. I emailed a partner in Milbank Germany, sending across my resume and deal sheet, not realizing cold-emailing is not as much of a thing in Europe as it is in the US. I was told, they did not have an opening in the Corporate/ M&A Practice Group. And I thought, you know, that was it. I said thank you and I’d be grateful if you could, you know, keep me in mind. A few weeks or so later, I got an email from the partner that while they do not have a place in the Corporate/ M&A practice group, the banking and finance practice group is looking for someone. So we had an exploratory interview and then I went through a series of interviews at first via Zoom. On the last Zoom interview, they asked if I would fly to Germany for an in-person interview. I flew in a week before the New York Bar, which they only found out during the interviews. I flew back to the US after four days—when I was en route to the airport, the offer was made. In hindsight, while the timing was stressful, it helped that I sat for the NY Bar with a settled heart.
Wow. I loved that story – flying to Germany for the job interview one week before the New York bar, and got the job offer before you flying back to the U.S. And you passed the bar at the first try!
I really couldn't have done it without the kindness of so many people then. There’s the kind partner at Milbank who took the time to reply to my e-mail and, despite being from a different practice group, recalled an opportunity in another group and emailed me weeks after our initial contact. He kept his word and kept me in mind—that gave me a very good feeling about the organization. Then there’s the head of my practice group, who, because she’s had a very international career, was very open to working with a cheeky lawyer whose qualifications at the time were from a jurisdiction they don’t commonly deal with.
While I was going through the Zoom interviews and processing my Schengen visa to fly to Germany for the final interview, my LLM study group really came through for me. They handled the Airbnb reservations for the days we would be taking the Bar exam, helped me catch up on my review backlog because I missed days of study processing visa paperwork and then flying to Germany, even feeding when I was sick after the trip. It was truly the kindness of people that allowed me to go through the process as seamlessly as possible.
What qualities or work experience the law firms are looking for when hiring internationally trained lawyers?
I think, first and foremost, it’s adaptability and grit. In my case, I had to switch practice area—and banking and finance is not an easy area to switch to. It has its own language and is done differently in Europe—the first time I saw an LMA-style senior facilities agreement a year ago, I was utterly lost. But if you’re willing to forego familiarity to learn something new and you trust that the skills you acquired in your previous roles are adaptable/transferable, the risk may pay off. I recently completed my first year in the firm (and in banking and finance in general) and it was brutal—it was definitely a watch-and-learn year. With the encouragement of a great team, I’d like to think I’m learning well enough though.
Communication skills are also essential. Being able to draft well and precisely is crucial, regardless of jurisdiction, as is knowing when a call might be more effective than an e-mail. In Germany, where precision is highly valued, it helped that I could effectively express myself in writing and verbally. I can articulate my thoughts fast and I find that’s helpful when it’s crunch time. My prior work experience also shaped how I deal with counterpart/external counsels.
There are still many things that are a struggle for me. I moved to Germany knowing very few people; literally, the only people I knew here were friends from the LLM program. I can’t easily hop on a plane or train and see my family. For context, it's a 16-21-hour flight from Munich to Manila, and from Manila to my hometown, it's maybe another 2 hours. The time difference is tough too—when I’m free to take calls, friends and family are asleep. It can get very lonely for people who aren’t from the country where they work. This is a common experience for many LLMs, especially those from Latin American or European countries who move to the U.S. or other European countries because they want to grow as lawyers. So you have to be open to new experiences and be honest with yourself about what you want. For me, I wanted to work on larger deals in a bigger market, so I took the leap. It is scary and difficult, so as a former mentor reminded me before I left for Germany, you need to be kinder to yourself, especially in your first few years in a new country.
I believe the world can benefit from lawyers with broader perspectives who come from diverse experiences, as those experiences inform how they negotiate and navigate deals. Especially since this is the Master of Laws Interviews Project, as an LLM, know that you have a network and a community. In the past year and change since I moved to Germany, I’ve met up with and gone on holiday multiple times with other friends from the LLM who are based in Europe and I see my LLM friends from the US and Asia too—we’re all at comparable junctures in our career and encountering similar struggles, so that’s been a great support group.
Could you talk about what you do (and can’t do) and your experience at Milbank in Germany?
Our practice group consists of seven lawyers, at least here in the Munich offices. I was used to having a larger team, so I had to figure out how to work in a leaner team in terms of delegation of responsibilities, reporting and so on. I’m happy to say that we have a very efficient and well-run team, a lean but mean machine—everybody just steps up to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done. For example, as a foreign attorney untrained in German law, my teammates step up to handle German law-specific concerns when they arise without making me feel like I’m burdening them. In turn, sometimes, I may have an easier time communicating with or understanding the perspective of local counsels because that was typically the role we took on in my previous law firm.
I’ve always been lucky with the people I work with. My partner is a phenomenally brilliant lawyer who took a chance on me and makes sure I have opportunities to learn and catch up in a new practice area. I have an amazing special counsel who takes time to methodically walk through complicated financing mechanics with me and from whom I’ve learned so much in the past year alone. I also have great teammates who are a joy to collaborate with and who do not hesitate to help others out, whether or not the account is assigned to them. From time to time, being the only non-German lawyer in the entire organization, I feel rather different and sometimes alone, but having a good team definitely eases the feeling.
You are a Philippines-trained and New-York-licensed lawyer practicing law in Germany. Could you talk about the cultural nuances you encountered in your daily work?
Over the past few months, people have been forwarding me a graph from a 2014 Harvard Business Review article, Navigating the Cultural Minefield by Erin Meyer. It sorts nationalities according to how confrontational and emotionally expressive they are, which you might think go hand in hand, but often don’t. As I understand it, the Y-axis maps emotional expressiveness, while the X-axis maps confrontational tendencies. In essence, in the upper right quadrant, you have countries that are emotionally expressive but avoid confrontation. In the lower left quadrant, you find countries that are confrontational but emotionally unexpressive. The funny thing is that the Philippines and Germany are diagonally farthest apart on this graph.
Filipinos are very emotionally expressive; we're a culture of "I love yous," hugs, and kisses, for one. We’re very trusting and say yes to pretty much most things--because we tend to avoid confrontation, we will go to great lengths to not disappoint. In contrast, Germans are supposedly highly emotionally unexpressive, clear with boundaries and also quite confrontational and decisive. My friends from the Philippines, the U.S., and the rest of Europe repeatedly forwarded me this graph, asking, "Are you okay? How are you dealing with it?"
My only answer really is that I get by with the kindness of others. My biggest stroke of luck career-wise has always been having amazing people to work with. To this day, I’m still in touch with my mentors from outside Germany who keep track of my professional progress and who give tips for adjustment based on their own experiences. There are also many lawyers in the firm even outside my practice group (and even some I’ve befriended from other firms) who always make sure I feel included in activities and who help me navigate living in Germany.
You asked earlier if there are struggles for me as a multilingual lawyer, and to be honest, the struggle isn't really with the language barrier. The real struggle for me has been the cultural differences. My friends outside Germany occasionally joke that I’m funny in Filipino and English, but my friends in Germany will never know! It’s the cultural differences that occasionally make it difficult for me to understand social cues and context. For example, Filipinos are way too gentle as a people (not always in a good way), so we have a different way of negotiating, both at work and in life. We also often hesitate to ask for help or even for the support and tools we need for fear of seeming incompetent, while in Germany, doing that is perfectly fine if professionally done. Adapting to Germany has been good for me in many ways though--as a friend recently pointed out, the past year’s definitely made me more assertive and decisive.
Do you have a funny story to share about the misunderstanding caused by linguistic and cultural differences?
There have been many funny stories about me not understanding certain nuances or something I’ve said being understood or coming across differently. One specific funny instance comes to mind though.
Generally, emails are in English, and when they come in German, my system auto-translates very accurately. Sometime last year though, when I was very new, I received an email that used the word "Weichmacher," which is fabric softener. In German legal speak, however, it’s used in the context of “softening” an ask in negotiations. I had to meekly ask one of my favorite colleagues for clarification: Did I understand correctly that they were softening the ask, or were they asking for fabric softener (bearing in mind that in some cultures, giving a symbolic item at the conclusion of a deal is not uncommon—certain types of sweets or teas or coins for example)? Apparently, it’s an expression that doesn’t translate well if you’re only learning formal German.
Do you have any advice to the law students and new lawyers who aspire to build an international legal practice as you?
Be a voracious learner and be open to new experiences—never be afraid to start from scratch. Something can be difficult the first few times you do it, but it gets easier with time. There’s a reason why it’s called legal practice—you need to do it again and again and again, never yielding until it’s muscle memory. Connect with and help other young lawyers. I’m grateful to have had people who extended kindness to me throughout my career, whether it’s by teaching me something or just generally looking out for my well-being in a highly stressful profession. I’ve learned that kindness goes hand in hand with leadership in law. You shine not just by being a brilliant lawyer, but by being a leader. You have to take ownership of and responsibility for your work and team, regardless of your place in the hierarchy. Lastly, if you’re part of the LLM community, sustain the bonds you’ve made because they will get you by in the toughest phases of your career. I have the most fabulous and driven LLM friends—it is no exaggeration that their journeys inspired mine. Our little LLM community across the world is truly vibrant.
